Believe it or not, you're heading toward this topic like a speeding bullet train! Think about it, it's almost mid-term (January) which means that you'll be 1/2 through your Junior year or to put it differently, you're ONLY a year and a half from GRADUATING!!! (Ok, reality just slapped you in the face!!)
U.S. News & World Report this week released its annual college rankings,
which include data on nearly 1,800 colleges and universities. This
year, Princeton came out on top of the national university rankings,
while Williams College stayed in the top spot among national liberal
arts schools.
This year, the rankings formula was changed to place more emphasis on student outcomes.
"U.S. News strives to provide students and their families with the most
comprehensive data available," said U.S. News' director of data
research, Bob Morse, in a statement. "Measuring outcomes is critical to
understanding how well a school retains and educates its students." High
school rank, meanwhile, received less weight than in years past.
Of course, the release of the rankings also brought out the critics. Here's a sampling of the headlines: "Why U.S. News' college rankings hurt students"; "Why U.S. News college rankings shouldn't matter to anyone."
(Click on these links to read the articles) Critics claim that the rankings give universities bad incentives when
it comes to raising tuition and ginning up oversized pools of
applicants; they also claim that the rankings don't place enough
emphasis on affordability or the job prospects of graduates.
Even President Obama got in on the action recently, when, while
announcing that the U.S. Department of Education would be releasing college ratings of its own,
he said, "Right now, private rankings like U.S. News & World Report
puts out each year encourages a lot of colleges to focus on ways to
game the numbers, and it actually rewards them, in some cases, for
raising costs. I think we should rate colleges based on opportunity. Are
they helping students from all kinds of backgrounds succeed?"
Topic Question: Are College rankings beneficial or do they really matter when it comes to selecting a college?
Well I think that this topic is a very double-edged sword. I think that in some ways they can be both good and bad. College rankings can be good, because it can categorize schools into ranges of quality, which usually will reflect their price. This might make schools put in the same ranges compete in prices, which will cause them to drop a little bit. Also, being able to physically look at the student outcome and success statistics will significantly effect where people want to go to school. If you look at a school like Syracuse, which is not a bad school, but also not an ivy league school, you would think that many applicants would be about in the middle ad far as qualifications go. But what isn't put into generalized rankings is that they have literally one of the best and most successful Journalism and writing programs on the planet, A huge majority of their graduates from these programs graduate right into jobs, or find some shortly thereafter. This is a big thing for possible applicants. Seeing how many of recent graduates ended up in their chosen field and how soon is invaluable information. I think more emphasis being placed on this a very good thing in college ranking, and a change that would sway me to argue more in their favor.
ReplyDeleteI do feel however, that the college ranking system does have some major drawbacks. One, I think getting a good ranking and being on the top will give a school a little freedom as to what prices they may have, and how often they can raise them. Also, since almost all college applicants apply to that one in a million school, like Harvard or Princeton, even though they know they arent going to be admitted, the admissions statistics of these power schools are skewed. A fix for this, however, is that colleges can only offer statistics of admission based on qualified applicants, not everyone. This may sound harsh, but could mean the difference between Princeton having a 7% or 17% actual admission rate. The biggest problem with ranking I think though, is the standard it sets. Alot of people look at these rankings to see what colleges they want to apply to, so many colleges want to rank high. As I said, one of, if not the biggest, factor to these ranking agencies is the admission percentage of students. Less to them, it seems, automatically means better. This causes alot of schools to want to admit less students, and at that, only the most highly academically qualified, so that their average gpa and test scores go up. This will cause kids who may not have killed the SAT, but were excellent leaders and sportsmen, to not get the acceptance letter.
All in all, I cant say that I don't think there should be a non-federal agency for College rankings. I do think that this is a complicated monster, and one that needs to be clearly defined and regulated.
Nick I really don't think that college rankings are really a "complicated monster." Think about out... are you really going to look at the ranks of colleges when you are going to college and base your decision of that. I think its an issue but a very minimal one.
DeleteNick, what sets the group of students apart that get into Ivy league schools are those who have the whole package. Are in sports, leaders AND have high GPA or academic ranking. That’s what sets kids that are going to state schools apart the kids that get into Ivys. So I get your point about how percentage admission sucks but these schools only want the best of the best so I feel like that is reasonable for it to be such a low percentage.
DeleteAbu, im pretty sure you are going to look at the college ranking and base part of your decision on that. There is no way that student can completely ignore the ranking of the college. The college does not specifically have to ranked 1 or 2 but in the top 10%. What i am trying to say is that it does not have to be a specific ranking, but a student will consider applying to the top schools in the country. And that is something everyone keeps in mind.
DeleteI feel like it is public knowledge to know where both colleges and high schools are ranked. Nick, I feel like you're being a bit dramatic calling the ranking system a "complicated monster." It's really not that complicated. Sure it may have some drawbacks to the school that we may not know too much about, but this is the best indicator to see where a student may be able to get in.
DeleteI agree half with Nick and half with Abu. The fact is a lot of people base their future college on ranking. For example, you always hear someone say "I would never go there its a terrible college." Where did they get that assumption of? Ranking. Ranking deters people from applying to some schools, and lets them apply to others. Now with that being said, students also look at other things, such as dorms, campus, any financial issues, sports, etc. The problem with ranking depends on how much the student values ranking over everything else.
Deleterankings take donations, so who is to say the whole system isn't money based?
DeleteCollege rankings have their pros and cons. But I don't think they play a major role in where students decide to go to college. They are just a list which shows which colleges are on the top right now. To the average students they don't really matter because many aren't even capable of getting into the elite schools. In addition, the costs of these schools are another factor which keeps them away. Sure there may be a few excellent students who base their decisions of college rankings but most decide off of which college fits them the best. Most look at tuition costs, location, the courses being offered and etc. When was the last time you heard someone say "I decided to go to this college because it was #1 on the college rankings"?
ReplyDeleteExactly, college rankings are not only what students decide on. For example I visited Boston College and Boston University over the break. BC has the higher ranking but I did not like it one bit. But I did love BU however. Rankings serve as a basis to find out what schools are creditable and known but they are not the only factor.
DeleteI completely disagree with your post. You out of all people should know that students do base their college decision on rankings. A student would not want to go to a school that was ranked like 300th rather then go to a school that was ranked 40th. I am pretty sure that after you put so much work in your grades you would not want to go to a school of low ranking.
DeleteJen I don't necessarily agree with you. You cannot assume that one would choose the higher rank because students and their families must see how much merit or financial aid the schools give them. As Abu suggested, there are numerous factors that come into play. A high rank isn't always on everyone's criteria list either, it is the school with the best program or setting for their major and personal preference.
DeleteYes, i agree Jen.G that many would love to choose and go to a higher rank school rather than a lower one. But, that also if it's the students desire to do so. In additon, sometimes many who would love to attend these higher ranked schools, can't due to financial issues because we all know how much college costs and the state of our ecomony isn't in great shape and isn't planning to improve any time soon.
DeleteJen I somewhat disagree with you. True, students would most likely choose a college at the top of the ladder than those at the bottom. However, do you think students would just solely base their decision on the ranking? I think they would most likely take into consideration the environment and if they that college is the 'best-fit' for them.
DeleteI dont think that they would just base their decision on college ranking, but it does help make their decision.
DeleteWe are ignoring the fact that college rankings still has some weight. There are plenty of reasons why people choose certain colleges, but what happens if you like two or three certain colleges? If you can't decide between colleges, then you look to rank. Boom rank just helped you choose a college. In addition, rank deters you from applying to certain colleges. I don't care if you disagree with the rank system, but if you see that a college is ranked one of the worst in the nation, you will not apply to it. Rank still helps people decide.
DeleteWhile i agree they aren't all that important i have to agree with Bishoy and say they do contain some weight in decision making. When making a decision on a number of your choices based on other factors students look at ranks to try to separate which college would be best for them. Also ranks aren't just for those "Elite schools". Average students who are deciding on colleges looks at ranks for their school as well. It isn't only a top ten list.
DeleteYour argument is easily discredited. You are valedictorian. If you could get into a top 10 school, but liked school #376 better, even though the education sucked and few people got jobs after graduating, which would you pick. If you say the latter you are a liar, and have no business posting much of anything.
DeleteI do think college ranking is important. It helps students decide what schools to look into. Getting into a high ranked college is the ultimate prize for a hardworking high school student. But however, the quality of the college does not determine the future of the attendee. A hardworking student that goes to Rutgers and gets great grades can still reach the same potential of a student at Princeton. So with that in mind, some students think that if they don’t get into an Ivy their lives are over, but that isn’t the case. High ranked schools are a great goal but going to a state school gives good opportunities as well. Ranking colleges serve great “bragging” purposes but they don’t determine much besides that.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you said about college ranking being a factor in the decision of the student. But i disagree to an extent about it determining the students future. Like i had mentioned in my post, a student that went to Harvard is more likely to get a job when competing against someone that went to Rutgers. Although i agree that they are both goods schools and both ensure a bright future, getting into a high ranked school comes with privileges.
DeleteMaya I agree with you that college rankings are not the ONLY factor that comes into play when determining a students future and that good oppurntunties are provided whether you go to a Ivy league school or state school. Either schools provide for a promising future. And Jen i agree that there are privlidges given when in higher ranked schools, but sometimes money and a students interest in a certain field may overcome the going to a higher ranked school and the privledges provided by them.
DeleteMaya I completely agree you and Jen G. I disagree with you. As I mentioned. landing a job depends on the person's achievement and work habits and if he/she fits in on the job. The school ranking may perhaps play a tiny part in it but it doesn't really guarantee you the job.
DeleteCollege rankings are both important and a necessity. It allows the students applying to college to strive for the best one. It is also a form of motivation for the student; if he/she strives to get into Harvard and it is the second best, then they will work and push through any obstacles to get in. it is sets a precedent for the student, and allows them to achieve beyond their expectations. The ranking of a college also says a lot about their graduates. What I mean is, that if a person is competing for job, someone that went to Yale is more likely to get in then someone that went to Georgetown, even though they are both very good schools. The point is that Yale is ranked higher then Georgetown, and education is something that the company would take into consideration greatly. Unfortunately, college rankings do play a large part in the work world and the decision of the students. But it is a sense of accomplishment. All the hard work that was put into high school would pay off when the student gets into a college of high rank, and not necessarily an Ivy.
ReplyDeleteI think college rank is more important for high school students and their families during the application process. It is also an important scale for fellow colleges to strive for new goals and recognition. I don't think college rank necessarily matters for getting a job always because again, it always comes down to the individual. You can be as high ranked as you want but you need to be able to portray compassion and social skills in further education interviews. I think school names and rankings only count for jobs that are associated with alumni from that school.
DeleteJen J I totally agree with you. There can be a great academic student that flls all the requirements of an Ivy leagure school but still does not get in. Getting into an Ivy League school is like winning the lottery in some cases. A person that gets admitted over another person may not be in any way better. It might just be luck. So can luck determine a persons future like Jen Gomez is saying it will? No. It definitely depends on an individuals goals, work ethic, charisma, etc. Not just the label of the school.
DeleteI agree with Jen and maya, that luck is not the answer or that attending higher ranked schools will guarenteed a job. It's a students determination, that is going to get him/her somehwhere in life. It's the students academic urge that will push them in the direction of what school they choose to attend.
DeleteJen G, I see your point but I would have to agree with Jen J and Maya. I mean let's say that Student A is a graduate of Princeton and Student B is a Georgetown alumni. Both are applying to the same company. both came from a renown college however Student A came from a higher-ranked school. But Student A's resume is not that impressive compared to Student B. Student B accomplished more than what Student A accomplished. Thus, If i'm the company, I would probably give the job to student B. Hence, college ranking does NOT matter especially if you are applying for a job. It is how the student is and his/her work ethic that counts the most.
DeleteSoo Jen G we have a couple of issues here. But first off, college rankings change often. Today Princeotn might be #1 and next year it met be Georgetown. So let's say someone is competing for a job from Princeton and Georgetown next year, are you saying that the Georgetown one would get the job? However, when the student from Princeton applied to Princetin, It was #1. So my main point is that college rankings are nothing but a number and can change easily. A college's reputation on the other hand may play a role in things such as competition for a job.
DeleteYeah but abu you were saying that students dont look at that at anymore. I dont agree with that. I am not saying that that is ALL they lookat, but it deffinetly plays a part in their decision.
DeleteAbu I don't see how the change in college rankings is a big deal in the work force. At the end of the day, your college rank will not get you the job, but it will give you an advantage over the rest of the competition. It is up to the person to use their advantage wisely. In addition, college rankings won't help you in the interview, but it might give you the skills needed to get the job. If you went to high ranked school, you are probably more educated then the rest of the competition in that field you are applying to. You are more educated because your college was ranked high, thus it has a lot of money, thus it has amazing professors. The college rank will play a role in most of the stuff you do in your work related life.
DeleteWhile going to these high ranked well known colleges may give you a boost over someone applying for a job, it is not the defining line that gets you the job. You may have went to Yale but based on the interview and work history your Yale degree will only give you an advantage, not the job itself. Also, students don't typically aim for the best college to go to on ranking/popularity standard but the college that is best in their major whether it be journalism, arts, or law. In all, people choose colleges that suit them best not that look the best.
DeleteCollege rankings do play a major role in the business/job market. If you tell someone on an interview where you went to college and it wasn't even considered for the ranking, the interviewer will most likely be baffled and unsure of your potential. Also, I believe the students define their colleges. NYU, for example, is know for their super creative, unique, urban, independent, and highly intelligent students. NYU became what they are through the help of the student body. So if you went to NYU, the interviewer would most likely know your personality, characteristics, and work reliability and intelligence all because of where you went to college.
DeleteI never really saw and currently do not perceive college rankings as a big issue. I think a college rank is a factor in one's selection of a school. Also, perhaps parents of the incoming student will be more willing to pay that extra amount of money due to their higher credibility. I do see how lower ranked schools have less flexibility regarding their school's price tag, but the official ranking of the schools is undoubtedly beneficial in a students' selection and ultimate academic drive. It will also give students a good idea on where they stand regarding "reach schools," having a good shot, and "safety schools."
ReplyDeleteI think that college rankings are good and bad. I agree that college rankings are good because they help categorize schools in levels based on excellence and superiority, where for some money might be an issue. And yes, they should have a factor in the process of looking at certain schools, but rankings should not ONLY determine a students’ future. Yes, rankings determine a school’s creditability but, the determining of students future, should mainly be based of the student’s academic urge to move in specific direction.
ReplyDeleteKarish, I agree with you that college ranking should not be the only factor to be considered when choosing a college. A student should also consider if he/she fits into the college because if you choose a college that you don't really fit in, you wouldn't be happy and it's mostly likely you would lose that drive to be successful.
DeleteI totally agree because the academic urge is something that will get you far in life, but if you choose the wrong college for you, one might lose that strive and it will eventually pave the way for ones doom.
DeleteCollege Ranking is a rather significant factor and it does affect a student's decision on which college he/she wants to go to. Often or most of the time, high school students, strive hard in school and make the most of the four years that they are given to ultimately attend a high-ranked college. The main thing about getting into a high-ranked college especially for high school students is that, it makes all the late nights of studying and the hard work of a student all worth the while. It is rather an achievement to get into the top colleges. However, i believe that college-ranking shouldn't be the only factor to consider when selecting a school. A student must take into consideration his/her compatibility to the college, itself. Also, I believe that a college-ranking does not determines how the student would turn out after his/her stay in that college. It all depends on the student whether he/she have that drive to become successful or not.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with you that "college-ranking shouldn't be the only factor to consider when selecting a school." College is much more than what is ranked. For example the location and the tuition cost is much more important that the place where it is on the list. In fact I would go on and say that the rank of a college plays an extremely minimal part in where people decide to go to college.
DeleteI like how you considered the rankings as a type of student reward after four years of rigorous study. Rankings can help students feel that their college decision was a good one; feel prestiged and honored to be accepted somewhere with high standards. Also, I agree that college rankings do not necessarily determine the compatibility between the students and the college; that is a completely autonomous decision.
DeleteI like how you pointed out that it's not the student's college degree, but rather his or her work ethic that will ultimately lead them to success (or lack thereof). I strongly agree with that.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOk, has anyone considered the fact that colleges that are considered "Ivy league" have HUGE endowments and that students that DO get into those schools often get large scholarships. I know when I was at Yale that we were told that the school gives nearly every single student attending gets a scholarship and it is NOT based on need, at all. Again, this is due to the large endowments that the such schools have.
ReplyDeleteEvery college, regardless of its rank is a BUSINESS. Just like any other business, it wants to be regarded as competitive and it wants its product (the student output) to be of high quality, yet this also allows these schools to increase tuition, hire the top professors (again, another element that they pass on to the student, either directly or by "begging" for larger donations from their alumni). But like several of you have already mentioned, you can be the top of your class in high school, nearly ace the SAT, be extremely active in your school, and still NOT get into an Ivy league school. Why? In part, due to affirmative action, which in my humble opinion, sort of distorts the whole "college ranking" all together!
I really have no opinion on college rankings. I'm going to talk through a students view of college rankings. First, rankings play a huge part in picking a school. Most people hear about colleges through rankings. People invest their time into researching colleges with high rankings. Basically, a student will only look at high ranking schools, and ignore all other schools. Now I don't mean everyone will only want to apply to an Ivy league, but if their are a couple of colleges that are similar, then you will look to the rankings to help make your decision. In addition, here will be competition. Low ranking colleges will improve to raise their rankings, and high ranking colleges will also try to improve to remain their current rank.
ReplyDeleteOverall, I think the effect of college ranking depends on the students.
Bishoy while i do agree that its effect definitely depends on the type of student i do not see how they play a huge part in picking a school. While you are right they are a popularity list and many people hear of colleges because of ranks it isn't to say your going to pick a college because its top 10 or 20 or whatever. Students who go to state schools because of the location, price, and atmosphere don;t pick those schools because their rank.
DeleteI agree; the significance of rankings depends on the student. Some students probably never heard of or just don't care to see these rankings. Others, on the other hand, based their college choices entirely on these rankings.
DeleteDo I feel college ranking are beneficial? Yeah I would say so, but do I think they mean a lot in selecting a college? Not at all. College rankings serve more as an incentive than a major factor when selecting a college you wish to attend. There are so many more factors that go into choosing a college. College ranks don’t, or at least shouldn’t be, nearly as much influence as some of you are making them seem. When selecting a college, factors such as its majors, size, dorms, location, and diversity completely overrule the influence from a college rank. Now college ranks aren’t all that evil as they do provide a rank based on the success in the college, but it shouldn’t be the reason you choose a college. Ranks I feel act more as a reason you may choose this college over another only because it is ranked higher. It gives a college a higher standard over another, but doesn’t mean it will suit a particular person better. Ranks do give colleges popularity and being ranked high may give a college the power to raise its most likely already outrages prices. But many of these private and low accepting schools share similar tuitions and have competition with other schools. Ivy leagues, even though high ranks drive prices, typically give large scholarships to students since they accept so few. So do I think there is an evil behind the ranks? No, but people shouldn’t put so much importance in them.
ReplyDeleteWhen selecting colleges that interest me, I rely heavily on US News rankings. I need to know how colleges compare to eachother and to their own history of improvement. Knowing that an established, reliable source like US News is conducting the ranking ensures accuracy. These rankings, however, can affect someone's college decision process; sometimes in a negative way. A person may fall in love with one college which fulfills all his academic, social, and financial needs, but be disuaded due to the fact that the college is like 300th in the country.
ReplyDeleteBut these rankings are indeed beneficial when looking at the bigger picture. US News does not just have one ranking list; it ranks colleges on other lists; best value or according to a specific subject area/major. Not everyone relies on these rankings, but like your highschool rank, it's important to know exactly where you stand, who are your equals, and how you can improve.
I never knew that US News provided rankings by school by major. Very interesting.
DeletePersonally, I feel that college rankings are not important. The ranks are based solely on data, and don't take into account the way that each student will perceive that school differently. As Maya mentioned above, her preferences went contrary to the rankings of the two schools she visited. Likewise, students may prefer some of the lower ranked colleges as opposed to the higher ranked ones. These rankings can be used as rough guidelines, but ultimately, they will be different from student to student, depending on personal preferences and intended major.
ReplyDeleteWhich brings me to my second point. Let's take a look at Princeton. It is one of the highest ranked schools in the nation; however, it's science department is lacking, and nearby Rutgers actually has a better science program. So students wanting to study science, for instance, wouldn't just look at the ranking. They'd look at the programs available specifically for their intended major, and decide from their which school would provide better opportunities for them.